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Could Goku and Ultimate Gohan even fuse?
Topic Started: Apr 17 2018, 02:07 AM (1,076 Views)
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Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”


Goku says here that two people have to be close in power to use Fusion. That's different from having to match your battle powers to do the technique. Even ignoring Gotenks power implications and/or nerfing gaps, it's impossible for Goku to be considered "close" to Gohan since he is definitely weaker than Evil Boo who got trampled by Gohan. So could Goku and Gohan really fuse?
Edited by Six Trails, Apr 17 2018, 02:07 AM.
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TrunksinSwimmingTrunks
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Formerly known as daman

With Potara, yes for sure (see Kibito-sama and Kaiosama-kun)
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Specifically talking about the Fusion Dance here... hence the quote in the OP.
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Topographic Oceans
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Probably not, going by logic. Goku couldn't perform the technique on the afterlife because nobody there was on par with him, and he's definitely not on par with Gohan here. You could make an argument that, since Trunks had to slightly lower his ki in order to successfully fuse with Goten, Gohan could do the same to fuse with Goku (obviously having to lower his power waaay more than Trunks did). I don't think that holds any water, though, because Goten and Trunks were already "similar" in power, whereas Goku and Gohan are on different leagues. If just about anyone could lower their level and perform fusion with a much weaker warrior, there wouldn't even be a requirement about the two fusees needing to be "fairly close" in power for the technique to work.

edit: Damn, the OP already mentions that being fairly close in power isn't the same as matching disparate battle powers. That's what I get for not reading it properly.
Edited by Topographic Oceans, Apr 17 2018, 04:38 AM.
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+ Emmeth
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There's an argument that can be made for Goku and Gohan being in similar in power when Goku is in SSJ3, but that's for another day.

I think there's more leeway than Goku lets on. He might not know enough about the technique or takes it too seriously.
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TrunksinSwimmingTrunks
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Six Trails
Apr 17 2018, 02:57 AM
Specifically talking about the Fusion Dance here... hence the quote in the OP.
Yeh, I thought you had just made a bad choice of quote.

I did think that the whole deal with being close in power just meant that if there was a big difference the stronger one would have to power down and that the reason why it was preferred to find two people who are close in power was due to it taking less time for the equalise their power levels (due to already almost being on the right level). However, after thinking about that quote, it does seem like if Goku meant they need to just power down he would have said something like "make their power similar". And the thing about nobody being close in the afterlife.

Edited by TrunksinSwimmingTrunks, Apr 17 2018, 08:29 PM.
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Dan The Commentator
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Would I be correct in assuming you're talking about this scene?
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That scene's real easy to rationalize if you go with the idea that, in the heat of the moment, the "similar powers" prerequisite just slipped Goku's mind. After all, he's clearly racking his brain to find a way to salvage the situation. Out-of-universe, Toriyama probably forgot.
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Dankness Lava
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Doesn't Gohan still have a "base" level?
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Dan The Commentator
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Dankness Flame
Apr 18 2018, 02:16 AM
Doesn't Gohan still have a "base" level?
It doesn't really seem that way in the manga. Based on the fact that the visual characteristics of Gohan's "Ultimate" state (taller, more filled out, close-drawn eyes, etc.) never go away, even ten years later, it seems that he just has all of his power wrapped up in base form now. Old Kaioshin even comments afterward that transformations are the wrong way of doing things.
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highwaysaiyan
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fusion never requires a similar power level, especially since its almost impossible to exist.
potara will fuse two people to create a new person stronger, how much stronger depends on personality and current power level.
fusion dance requires for the fighters to match their power levels, which can be done by controlling ki. if ki does not match, the fusion will not achieve its full capability.


so to your question, goku can fuse with literally anyone, including gohan with potara.


EDIT:
ultimate gohan is just gohan post ritual. remember when gohan had massive amount of hidden potential in him ? the ritual released ALL of it and made his base form 'complete'. ultimate gohan IS gohan.
*same thing babidi did to vegeta
Edited by highwaysaiyan, Apr 30 2018, 10:02 PM.
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Topographic Oceans
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I don't think the ability to fuse with Potara was ever in question.

But if Goku can fuse with virtually anyone using either method, how come he couldn't find a suitable fusion partner in the afterlife?
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highwaysaiyan
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Topographic Oceans
Apr 30 2018, 10:01 PM
I don't think the ability to fuse with Potara was ever in question.

But if Goku can fuse with virtually anyone using either method, how come he couldn't find a suitable fusion partner in the afterlife?
goku had the privilege to keep his body intact. most people lose their body and their spirit goes to another life, depends on their judgement (according to piccolo).
there is a reason why goku spent all of his time in the afterlife with king kai in canon. there was nowhere else to go.
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Topographic Oceans
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So there's not a single warrior in the history of the Dragon Ball universe who was allowed to keep his body in the afterlife and is also "fairly close" to Goku in size? The mere fact that there were people there willing to teach Goku techniques like that implies that the afterlife isn't so barren and that he didn't spend all of his time with Kaio.

Not to mention the wording of his statement: "I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…". Goku didn't try fusion out in the afterlife is because nobody there was on par with him, not because no one was willing to do it or because the afterlife is empty.
Edited by Topographic Oceans, Apr 30 2018, 10:15 PM.
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StrenuousSpider
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Topographic Oceans
Apr 30 2018, 10:14 PM
So there's not a single warrior in the history of the Dragon Ball universe who was allowed to keep his body in the afterlife and is also "fairly close" to Goku in size? The mere fact that there were people there willing to teach Goku techniques like that implies that the afterlife isn't so barren and that he didn't spend all of his time with Kaio.

Not to mention the wording of his statement: "I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…". Goku didn't try fusion out in the afterlife is because nobody there was on par with him, not because no one was willing to do it or because the afterlife is empty.
Id say the only person who had enough power going by non canon was pikon but he is not the same in body.
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SuperSaiyanGodGogeta
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Based on this logic Goku and Vegeta shouldn't have been able to fuse with the dance since Goku is 4x stronger than Vegeta due to SSJ3. Doesn't make any sense.

Ultimate Gohan being stronger than SSJ3 Goku is irrelevant. Their powers are relatively comparable in the same state. In other words, Base Goku and Base Gohan would have no issues fusing.
Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, May 8 2018, 02:43 AM.
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